The Ballad of 18 Women

Name of interviewee Alma Brown
Name of interviewer Keith Barber
Date of interview 16/06/2021
Recording method Telephone & double-ended audio recording

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:00 Background: Born in Jamaica 6/2/1948. Came to England 15/5/1964. Lived in St Helens with Dad, moving to Liverpool when married in 1971. 5 great grandkids.
00:02:25 Involved with Liverpool Cares: coffee, chatting, walking, social events.
00:03:35 Volunteer work: for the blind in Bradbury Fields; St George’s Hall; Town Hall; Liverpool Cruise Terminal. Guiding/supporting/assisting.
00:04:25 Hobbies: Martial arts (taken up at 48), walking, helping grandkids.
00:05:35 You can say what you feel as a woman in Liverpool, have a voice.
00:06:25 I proudly keep myself very fit. Volunteer of the year 2015. Am a second dan blackbelt. Learned to swim recently despite lifelong fear of water.
00:09:50 Family background
00:09:50 Dad worked on railway, a trolleyman. Came and worked in the mines in England, the mother country. Made the family home.
00:12:00 Four brothers & four sisters. Two youngest born in England, rest in Jamaica
00:12:30 Revisited Jamaica with Dad 20 years ago. Fell down Dunns River Falls.
00:13:45 My groups: Liverpool Cares meet up in library, do litterpicking in Sefton Park, Collective Encounters, dancing in The Empire, Choir in St Josephs
00:15:35 Covid is disappointing, I just get on with it & do the best I can. Exercise, walking, helping grandkids all keep me going. TV & wordsearch.
00:16:30 I regret not learning to ride a bike. I will learn eventually.
00:17:45 I was so terrified of the water but went in & learned the strokes.
00:18:45 Education: Went to a girls school run by nuns in Jamaica & began lessons to become a nun. Left school at 15 for England. Attended night school.
00:19:30 Employment: Got job at Mullards & then Rainhill Hospital. Went from auxillary nursing to having a family. Returned as carer, studied health & social care at college, worked in nursery for 10 years, then 10 years with older kids.
00:21:00 Retired at 60, began doing drama for the kids. Loved it.
00:22:40 8 of us wrote a book, Two Dogs, about camps in Liverpool & Ireland. There were war camps in Huyton. We published 1000 copies which all went.
00:26.00 Helping people
00:26.00 My Dad was always helping different people which might be why I do. If I see someone who needs help, I help them.
00:27:20 I was on a bus & helped an elderly fella whose trousers had fallen down. Helping people is in my blood.

Name of interviewee Anna Reid
Name of interviewer Lynda Cash
Date of interview 27/10/20
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:50 First job at Blackwells, Oxford. Joined strike outside thinking it a queue.
00:02:30 Oxfam & Trade Unions
00:02:30 Then worked at Oxfam, became more politically aware. Trade unions were promoted globally by the charity despite not existing within it. Proud to be part of the founding group.
00:04:20 Political activism
00:04:20 Became more aware of people who try and make things better for others. Joined Labour party. Got involved in Amnesty International, writing letters, felt important to acknowledge human rights. Signing petitions.
00:05:30 Going on demonstrations. Marched against nuclear weapons (CND), against apartheid: picketed the South African Embassy, against arms trade.
00:06:05 Lobbied MP and councillors on all these issues.
00:06:45 Equal pay wasn’t on political agenda at time of first job (1974). Went for a typing job & was told the women there were paid badly as only there for “pin money”. Women’s work is undervalued.
00:08:00 Different jobs & moves
00:08:00 Tops training scheme (1979). Grant to retrain in typing plus bar job enabled saving up to travel in Canada.
00:09:40 Moved to Liverpool with 2 tiny children in 1995
00:10:00 Worked at film co-operative 1997/8. First Take Video. Trained women in non-traditional skills/industries: film making.
00:11:40 Working for 2 years at Directory of Social Change who publish information for the third sector. Developed program for small charities.
00:13:10 Enjoyed 16 years at the Royal College of GPs. Ran the regional office.
00:13:30 Retired. Loves it (other than Covid).
00:14:30 Volunteers with Allerton in Bloom: Plant Co-ordinator.
00:15:30 Is a Digital Ambassador with FACT. Just made an online VR game.
00:16:45 Travelled a lot. Met husband in Oxford and was the breadwinner for 3 years in Norwich whilst he was at university. Then moved to Newcastle for nine years and then to Liverpool where we’ve been for 25years.
00:17:50 Would go on many City breaks with small group of women. Loved Iceland.
00:19:40 Does lots of online campaigns now. Hopes it makes an impression.
00:21:00 Vegetarian. Organic gardener. Animal welfare and food/farming are particular concerns. Advocate for public transport, cycling, Sustrans.
00:22:50 Cycled across country from Whitehaven to Tynemouth.

Name of interviewee Anne Gorton
Name of interviewer Keith Barber
Date of interview 03/12/20
Recording method Phone & double-ended audio recording

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:02:20 First action: member of the Labour Party women’s section. Fighting to keep hospitals open. Tories were selling off the land. Battling all the time.
00:04:20 Spoke several times on platform at Labour Women’s Conferences. About Northern Ireland. Political manipulation rather than religious divide.
00:06:15 Foreign secretary “I’ve seen a lot of your back today”
00:06:35 Became part of Liverpool Health.
00:07:30 Newsham Park hospital campaign
00:07:30 1989 visiting Newsham Park hospital workers to try and keep open. We lost. That it remains closed and as a spooky attraction is a disgrace. It had once been an orphanage. Terribly disheartening.
00:11:05 Car park campaign & Fairfield Residents Association
00:11:05 1981 walking through park, neighbours shocked by a digger near bandstand. Asked & found a carpark was about to be built. “That had my blood up”. Tracked down councillor’s home phone number, who were annoyed and shouted that we had no right to contact them.
00:13:40 Contacted newly elected MP Terry Seels & council saying I represented (fictional!) Fairfield Residents Association. Mr Parks came and met me at the park gate. Police band used to play on the bandstand, The Follies.
00:18:00 Started the Fairfield Residents Association. A win! Stopped the carpark.
00:18:30 Education
00:18:30 Saw an ad ‘Second Chance’ for people who didn’t have higher education. “I’ll have a go”. I didn’t have a first chance as girls didn’t get a proper education at my Catholic school; unlike the boys. My infant school was bombed a few weeks after I started & the teachers were evacuated.
00:20:15 I was always asking too many questions and getting into trouble.
00:21:45 Sept ’69 I returned to work against my husband’s wishes.
00:24:30 Work safety dispute
00:24:30 I refused to carry too heavy a weight and so the supervisor/union rep got involved & agreed to reduce the weight. “Just because it’s always been done that way doesn’t mean that it’s right.”
00:27:30 The Labour party stopped the women’s section as we were too mouthy
00:28:20 1973 joined shopworkers union at Littlewoods Pools. Though we wanted to be in the printers union. Went marching against Poll Tax.
00:30:30 Became a “Kennedy Friend”(?) helping people speak for themselves in court.
00:31:20 Joined the women’s history team after Second Chance. Released books. Did interview on birth control.
00:32:00 Marching against Poll Tax in London: singing, families, beautiful sunny day. Noticed mounted police on the sidelines, they wanted trouble. Chaos ensued as we were herded back to the coach.
00:34:45 Standing for the local council
00:34:45 1989 decided we wanted to get more women to stand, I was convinced to try. Had to go and speak in front of the ward.
00:36:45 Husband and brother tried to stop me. I went to places which hadn’t been canvassed in all weathers. People were surprised I wanted to be a councillor, asked what my husband thought. Women shouldn’t do that.
00:39:00 I was elected councillor for Tuebrook in 1990! Five women elected! Too far left for Labour, being from Broadgreen.
00:41:40 Voted against budget, lost the whip. Became Liverpool Labour.
00:44:25 Taxis still all have visible ID due to my work preventing attacks on women.
00:49:40 The police authority work entailed checking finances; myself and another female Labour councillor asking awkward questions.
00:52:20 Trailblazing female police officer was accused of immorality. She was being publicly attacked because she was female.
00:56:20 Manchester Prison riots brought prisoners to Liverpool & Bridewell Prisons. We went to check on their welfare.
00:58:25 At midnight I went to the station in a rapid response police car. They got a call & were thrilled to put the siren on & chase. It was only a robbery in McDonalds. I refused to stay in the car. Manager thought I was a detective and spoke to me.
01:05:05 I was a councillor from 1990-4. I wouldn’t stand again as some horrible things happened to my family in ’93. Still active in party and union.
01:06:45 Went to old people’s meetings in council. Ended up in Liverpool First representing senior citizens at board meetings.
01:09:10 I spoke up for the Trades Council: some men who had experience but no qualifications & whistleblowers blacklisted.
01:12:40 One of the criminal businessmen suggested they form their own group
01:13:45 ‘We know the buildings being redeveloped are built on drug money but at least they’re getting done up.’
01:14:10 Was chair of Communities Against Poverty, met with MPs in London as well of Objective One and chair of Health & Antipoverty Forum in Fairfield.
01:15:25 Filmed for TV
01:15:25 Whilst in a meeting I was asked by the BBC or Granada to show them the area, Kensington, as we saw no evidence of supposed investment. We parked near a very run down empty house, I stood on broken glass on camera & explained we’d asked for a sports facilities & got a McDonalds.
01:25:25 Once you get involved with one thing you get pulled into all sorts of different directions. I forgot how to say no. Am still active in my union as a retired member.
01:26:00 Went on a march against the poll tax in Manchester. One banner read “No poll tax & no tax on tampax”
01:27:00 Fought many battles, including with my husband who came round eventually.

Name of interviewee Chantelle Lunt
Name of interviewer June Hudson
Date of interview 14/12/2020
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:50 Growing up, foster care, racism
00:01:50 Grew up in foster care in Halewood which is 99% white; so you had to grow resilience fast as a black person.
00:03:00 Only a handful of other black kids in school. Lots of subtle/covert racism. N word, avoiding holding hands etc. Learned to hide under radar. Changed name and straightened hair to stop people touching it,
00:06:00 Found a small circle of morally-centred friends who are still close.
00:06:10 Foster Mum huge influence, wonderful woman. Built confidence. “Walk with your head held high. Show them your dignity.” No-one’s going to give you a hug as a black woman so you have to learn to hug yourself. She told me I could do anything and was an absolute warrior.
00:08:25 I didn’t know what the N word meant when I was first called it but I could tell it was designed to hurt me. White kids taught me racist words. They hurt on a cellular level.
00:10:10 Career in police force
00:10:10 I joined the police at age 28/29 after working for the council. I was inspired by meeting other black police officers.
00:12:10 The police is one of the holy grails of structural racism. In the council I felt supported as a black person. I became confident in talking about & celebrating my black identity.
00:13:40 There was overt and covert racism in the police. They were reluctant to be challenged on it.
00:14:10 Challenging racism in the police
00:14:10 I spoke out & became a pariah after lip service was paid to my concerns. I was stigmatised for being black and a grass. They funded my degree.
00:15:25 It became clear that I had to keep quiet if I wanted to progress but what was the price of my silence? I decided it wasn’t worth compromising the self I had nurtured. I departed with a bright future and clear conscience.
00:16:30 I self-funded my next degree and learned in detail how racism manifests & functions by being upheld by institutions. I was reassured in the choice I’d made and found my experience in the police was not unique but a well-practised method of silencing people.
00:17:20 George Floyd killing
00:17:20 When viewing the footage of the murder of George Floyd I was watching the 2 officers of colour who turned their backs. Unlike those officers, I’m very happy that I’m fighting/dismantling structural racism.
00:18:50 I have an issue with people being desensitised to extreme acts of violence. I don’t think that should have ever been recorded or shared. Though it did help people to understand it’s terrible that George Floyd’s final moments have been consumed by so many.
00:19:50 The police officer who killed George knew that he could squeeze the life out of a black man with no repercussions. The police then failed to handcuff him or denounce what he’d done but protected him. A shocking example of how insular & racist the police force has become.
00:20:30 A crushing, traumatic moment for the black community. Many of us relived our trauma. Racism is something which kills us in many different ways.
00:21:45 I have two children, boys.
00:22:05 Merseyside BLM Alliance
00:22:05 I’m the founder of Merseyside Black Lives Matter Alliance. An online space.
00:22:55 Was covid shielding when the video of Floyd came out. The collective trauma that the black community felt; I could not eat or sleep as I relived some of the racism I had experienced. I was terrified for my sons. My way to fight back was to set up social media platforms to educate people.
00:24:45 The online fight is important as racist discourse spreads fast on social media. To bring community together in safety, solidarity and understanding & further informed discourse.
00:27:25 Goals for the future BLM: summer was the much-needed wake up call. The hard work is next: taking continuous action to dismantle racism. Currently working closely with Higher Education providers/schools/communities.
00:29:00 Black people didn’t invent racism. It’s everyone’s job to dismantle it.
00:29:30 Future goals for me: my juice and smoothie business is building, I hope to employ vulnerable young people. Will continue with my Criminology and Sociology degree, hopefully a masters after. Plus raising kids & cats.

Name of interviewee Clara Paillard
Name of interviewer June Hudson
Date of interview Fri 13 Nov 2020
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:00:55 Lockdown living in Italy
00:01:20 Born near French city of Lyon in 1980
00:02:05 Background and overview
00:02:05 2001 moved to Liverpool, supposedly for one year, stayed 19 so far
00:02:40 World politics, antiracism, justice & equality, climate change
00:03:40 “French Scouser”
00:04:35 Involvement in different groups/campaigns
00:04:35 Joined Globalise Resistance. Took part in G8 protest in Genoa, Italy in 2001. Traumatic: Police violence. Tear gas. A death
00:05:40 2003 met Hilary Burrage. Joined Monday Women Club
00:06:20 Started organising climate change events in restaurant. FOE. Campaign Against Cimate Change
00:06:45 Protested Condoleezza Rice in Liverpool
00:07:40 Joined Campaign For A New Workers Party in order to feel represented as a working class woman. And then community groups
Here the interviewee is trying to remember the name of the actor Ricky Tomlinson who spoke at an event
00:09:40 Joined campaign against building an academy in Newsham Park. Preserving heritage and green space.
00:10:20 Joined Merseyside Civic Society.
00:11:15 Aged 25/26 became secretary of Liverpool Parks Friends Forum
00:12:00 2008 Capital of Culture neglected working class art. Proposed fringe event. Art/creativity contribute to dignity and humanity. Nicky Holt. Ken Loach.
00:15:00 Started PHD examining regeneration/heritage of Liverpool. Got job at Museum of Liverpool Life as admin assistant. 2006. Paused PHD in order to work fulltime
00:17:00 Went to picket line for first time. Joined PCS Public and Commercial Services union. Gladly began recruiting women.
00:19:20 At 15 began protesting for equal pay for youth.
00:21:10 Began campaign for Real Living Wage. Succeeded after 7/8 years. 9% rise for cleaners
00:22:00 Tory coalition begin Austerity program 2010. Massive museum budget cuts. 140 employees lost. Leading negotiating team whilst at risk of redundancy. Many jobs kept thanks to Clara and her team.
00:25:30 Began to be known round the city for activism. Speaking to crowd at protests. Antiracism. Nick Griffin. 2008/9. Realised the need for action due to being an immigrant from France with it’s occupied/collaborator history.
00:27:20 Trade Unionism
00:27:20 Local trades councils. Linking local activities. Union at national level.
00:28:10 Group Executive Committee PCS Union Culture Group. Vice president then president in 2014. Defended free access as a human right plus workers pay. Keepers of history and givers of education against commercialism.
00:30:20 2015 Threat of privatisation of 400 workers at National Gallery. Took unpaid leave to support those on the picket line. Determination solidarity. Media interviews, social media, international, fundraising. Few gains made.
00:33:20 Traversing the country meeting culture workers. Unsettled and down in Liverpool. Felt career had taken backseat to activism. Years of austerity struggle and seeing desperation.
00:36:30 Moving to Climate Change activism. Organised 2015 event in Paris with Naomi Klein, Corbyn. Spoke on platform. Protested fracking. Climate strikes. Extinction Rebellion. FOE
00:37:50 Trade Unions still dominated by older men: particularly difficult as a youngish migrant woman. Began to put self as higher priority
00:38:50 March 2020 already suspended from work pending disciplinary hearing due to union activities when Covid hit. Much union work. Secured 100% pay. Safety. Talking to workers every day.
00:43:00 Greatest achievement: disability activism, mental health DPAC. Co-curated guerilla museum exhibition at Tate Modern. Arts for Rights.
00:45:45 Hardest/saddest moment: Brexit. Couldn’t understand. Sad. Jo Cox, a woman MP assassinated by fascist. Hostile environment. Got arrested for being distressed at the news on the train. Terrible time. Been told to go back to her country. Unsure whether she can stay in UK
00:49:20 Not necessarily proud of her achievements. Thinks more about next collective challenge. No regrets.
00:50:50 Proud to have involved a lot of young people in politics/activism. Prevented some privatisation in Liverpool Museums, solidarity, wages.
00: 52: 40 Oil painting of her done by her partner in lockdown, too big to keep, donated to Museum. Liverpool woman trade unionist done by Liverpool artist. Story and picture kept for people to discover.
00:54:30 Annoy people with power!

Name of interviewee Doreen McNally
Name of interviewer Keith Barber
Date of interview 20/05/2021
Recording method Phone, double-ended recording

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:14 Background – born in 1946. Working class family. married a docker. Nurse.
00:01:50 Whole city of Liverpool was governed by the docks. People worked in shipping offices, young men went away to sea & worked on the docks.
00:02:24 Starting point: Thatcher coming to power, defeat of miners who were let down by other unions who thought they were strong enough, loss of confidence among trade unionists, national dockers strike
00:03:34 Liverpool dockers dispute
00:03:34 Liverpool stayed out longest, then pressured to sign new contracts – intruding in family life, eroding private life. Conversation with husband: “why are you accepting this?”
00:04:50 Dock company set up Torside agency to take on young men who would not be on the same pay as the dockers; context of high unemployment ‘biggest & best educated dole queues in the world’; “If you vote for this you won’t have a job”; they played one against the other
00:06:30 All came to head when Torside lads refused to work without overtime pay, set up Seaforth picket line, in an orchestrated swoop the Dock company sacked entire workforce in (inc. a driver who didn’t work for them)
00:08:08 Meeting to have a rally in town; I was asked to speak as I’d been correcting people on the Roger Philips show on the radio; husband encouraged me
00:09:05 Rally at St George’s Hall – had dry mouth, so nervous! Eddie Loyden gave me a chewy. Gave speech – about the experience of the contract change.
00:11:18 Women were telling me “that’s how it was in our house”; anecdote about a woman suspecting her husband because of a phone call from the company. Disruption & intrusion on family life. Husbands personalities changed. They lost the love of their work.
00:11:45 When I was young everyone lived next door to each other, a close community. Then came the nuclear family where people didn’t know each other. Women couldn’t realise the problem wasn’t just individual.
00:13:23 Forming a women’s group: struck fear in your heart. The women have never been involved in disputes on the docks. I went along to the meeting. Sylvia (miners) advised us to form a committee – I was appointed chair. We all thought it would be over in a few weeks. Committee formed of volunteers.
00:16:34 Support from Leslie – gave us a list of people to ring. Spoke to journalists, radio, trades councils, shareholders, started receiving invitations to speak.
00:17:59 Women couldn’t go on their own – had to be accompanied by a man. Women were in traditional roles. Men were protective, overprotective at times.
00:19:24 Workload became so heavy that we were allowed to go out on our own; spoke at union conferences
00:20:08 People had no incomes; did a welfare rights course. No one had ever claimed anything before. Embarrassing, humiliating.
00:21:24 Children came to meetings – we had to politicise our children so they would know what was going on
00:21:52 “Have you heard of the internet?” No one had! It was the first dispute to go online. Dockers already had good international connections. Support started coming in from abroad.
00:23:08 Went to conference in France. I was totally out of my depth. I had to speak about the dockers. Stomach was turning. But everyone was talking about the same thing – deregulation, privatisation, attacks on the welfare state – I could talk about where we were in the set up. I said, the difference is: in Liverpool we’re trying to do something about it. Conference decided to support Liverpool dockers.
00:26:00 We held our own conference in Liverpool. International support. In Australia, they knew they were going to be next.
00:27:05 Women are on the picket lines every day. Police heavy-handed at times. Arresting men for nothing; people getting dragged through courts and having to take cautions. Dealing with this at the same time as all the things in life – looking after Grandchildren, parents, trying to keep children out of debt.
00:28:28 Winning the Gaddafi prize & travel to Libya
00:28:28 Going on delegation to London. Human rights conference about Islam. After speaking, a man from NGO in Geneva said he could help. Sent him information. Meanwhile, husband had health issues. In hospital with husband and Italian doctor just wanted to talk about the dockers dispute because he had done translation for the Italian delegation. Then letter arrives at home – my son told me I had won the Gaddafi prize for human rights.
00:32:33 Five women were selected representing 5 continents. As far as I’m concerned – it was for the women’s group, not for me. Had a meeting to research it. Spoke to Professor of Peace Studies at Bolton university. He said it was fourth in line prestige wise with the Onassis prize. Decided we should accept it and go to Libya. Announced it over the bank holiday weekend so it would be forgotten about.
00:35:29 Journey to Libya, confusing experience
00:41:06 Spoke up to ask what was going on – they didn’t know what ‘housewife’ meant on the passport!
00:42:08 Other women who were there. Including aboriginal woman who had come to England with aboriginal flag and stuck it in the sand to say “I claim this land”. She swore like a trooper. We palled up with her.
00:43:57 Libya was a mixed society. Women were allowed in education, but there were fights within the family.
00:44:36 After thank-you speech – cameras everywhere. Asking about the Princess of Wales. She had just died!
00:47:08 We were treated as foreign dignitaries but kept thinking we were being kidnapped.
00:47:41 Met Black Panther Stokely/Kwame Carmichael. He told us our room was bugged. So we put towels over all the mirrors and TV. Looking back it was hilarious but we were deadly serious.
00:49:35 Had to ring round to find out about the Princess of Wales so I could make a comment. Husband hadn’t heard anything about it. Spoke to Paris – yes it’s true, paparazzi are being blamed. When we got home – they had forgotten all about us, but we didn’t expect anything as dramatic.
00:51:53 Some lovely experiences going around the world. People’s generosity. When you’re on the receiving end it overwhelms you. Lifted your spirits and kept you going.
00:52:47 Police very heavy handed even with women on the picket lines. They took photos. We would bring cameras to take photographs of the police. But no one had cameras on their phone then. They stopped intimidating us then because it wasn’t having an effect.
00:54:00 Widespread interest in dockers dispute
00:54:00 Phone call from John Pilger. Took him to the T&G offices. He did a huge article in the Observer. Helped us, as did Paul Foot. Ken Loach made a documentary – ‘The Flickering Flame’. At end of dispute, Jimmy McGovern & Irvine Welsh came along and wrote the film ‘Dockers’.
00:55:22 Disagreements about focus of the film – I thought the internationalism was the most important thing but the men were deeply wounded by the union betrayal.
00:57:21 I don’t know how many dissertations we’ve helped with. We would speak at universities. With the dispute, there was something for everyone.
00:58:28 We became involved with Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace, Reclaim the Streets. The rallies were huge. The imagination of the young. Folk groups wrote songs about it and would perform at the rallies.
00:59:20 I think about how I’ve stood and gave a speech in the same space as Tom Mann stood on the 1911 transport strike.
00:59:57 It was a devastating experience but it was very rewarding and I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.
01:01:44 Afterwards, we lost our car. Things started catching up with people. Lost homes.
01:02:11 We gave a platform to other people in dispute. Most memorable: women from Srebrenica. Poverty was absolute. We collected things for them.
01:05:05 Because of your own suffering, your empathy is heightened, so you take on their suffering as well as your own. Emotionally draining but you can’t protect yourself. You’re laid bare.
01:06:22 Coming up with the name – we shouldn’t just be called the Dockers wives. How about The Women of the Waterfront? Abbreviated to WOW. Everyone called us the WOWs.
01:07:52 Bramley Moore picket – the atmosphere so thick and heavy. Woman was attacked by policeman. My husband intervened, got marched off. We were all hitting the van. Helicopter flew over and a docker stood in the spotlight and started tap dancing.
01:10:50 Women of the Waterfront didn’t keep going. We should have, but everyone exhausted. But the Australian group kept going and they won their fight.
01:11:42 I joined the Unite Community branch. We help out if anyone’s in trouble. Until everything had to stop because of COVID.
01:12:37 Such a learning curve. I thought I understood what Globalisation was, but I understood it at that first World Conference. Listening to people. Still involved in International Liaison Committee. Cuts are happening right across Europe: NHS, welfare state, pensions. Being a member or not being a member of the EU – makes no difference. Lessening rights at work – right across the continent.

Name of interviewee Felicity Dowling
Name of interviewer June Hudson
Date of interview 15/06/2021
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
Background
00:01:40 Grew up in Clubmoor, 1 of 4 kids living with mother, father, grandfather.
00:02:10 Luckily was pushed hard in school. First in family to go to uni: Warwick.
00:02:40 Becoming politically active
00:02:40 At 14 joined Labour Party Young Socialists.
00:02:55 Learned about trade unionism at Ogdens tobacco factory. “Those women were fabulous: taught me a helluva lot & were dead kind to me.”
00:03:20 There were all kinds of amazing people in Clubmoor Labour Party who were fighting for rights of ordinary people. Good grounding.
00:03:45 My Mum had the ideas but wasn’t active. In community standing up for others was automatic/natural. Feeling for community led to joining party.
00:05:00 My Mum’s place was a council house with ample space. George Orwell wrote about that estate in Road to Wigan Pier to show government could build decent housing for working people in 1920’s.
00:05:50 Liverpool City Council
00:05:50 When I was on council in 80’s we built 6000 houses, demolished 6000 slums & renovated 6000 more. We built Everton Park & sports facililties that produced Olympic athletes. People fought; won & they’re still standing
00:06:50 I was organising secretary of Labour Party plus councillor for Speke, involved in education. Liberals were closing schools hand over fist: parents took over Croxteth school refused to close it & ran it as occupied.
00:07:50 Did big reorganise of state secondary schools. Got a vote of thanks from all the teacher unions for the way it was conducted. Unique!
00:08:20 Improved education despite Thatcher cuts, against the stream.
00:08:40 Margaret Thatcher, Neil Kinnock were barriers. The whole political establishment didn’t want our work: making jobs & building houses.
00:09:15 Need a community to achieve change, be prepared to work hard, build, make people realise they can do. Make working class people understand their value. Our sense of community gives us power.
00:10:00 Health campaigning
00:10:00 We saved Liverpool Women’s Hospital which is still thriving & delivering 90% of babies born in Liverpool. Particularly given Royal catastrophe. Now has national significance.
00:10:40 Still long job to do making medicine respect women’s rights & biology. Women from poor backgrounds still much more likely to have stillbirths.
00:11:15 Encouraging ordinary people to think that their voice matters & they have power to change things.
00:11:40 Was working late one tough night, got the closure news “not on your Nelly they’re not!”. I started Facebook page & petition which got 15,000 in one day. Team grew plus huge support from working women.
00:13:10 Biggest thing we’re doing at this moment is getting people to fight for the NHS. Decent healthcare repays itself financially & in wellbeing.
00:14:00 The gov are trying to make NHS a regional service, more influenced by private companies. Many serious wrongs, no media coverage. We organise meetings, materials. Lots are helping, most don’t know what’s going on.
00:16:00 Lovely partner Jim also trade unionist: we work together on all this.
00:16:50 I was really pleased I was a teacher, loved it. In latter years I worked with kids with learning difficulties. This has gone backwards due to cuts/targets.
00:19:00 Biggest work achievement was learning how to teach dyslexic kids: get them reading & growing understanding of the issues. Also reducing anxiety for autistic kids allows participation in mainstream education.
00:19:40 Working with parents to bridge school & home. Hard work but had good impact. Current gov approach makes kids with statements less welcome. We need to make comprehensive schools comprehensive & child-focused.
00:20:45 Organised International Women’s Day demos. Good fun & serious. Katumba samba band lead through city. Sudanese women came & lead.
00:21:45 Number of murders of women by violent men is horrific. Virtually impossible to get a rape case to court. Need to react, fight, assert our rights to be safe in work, public & home. We’ve got to speak out.
00:23:10 Spare time: garden, walking, dog. I like reading, talking to people.
00:23:40 International: support the Palestinians; we fought to end apartheid in South Africa. Currently working with European left on many issues: feminism, healthcare, living standards. Supporting Belarusian women through tough time under crazy president.
00:24:35 My kids are all socialists. Family light of my life.
00:25:20 In mid 1960’s human rights were in the news globally, lots to make you think. “I went & knocked on that door” on Valentine Road.
00:26:10 Women of the Waterfront were families & women working on docks during dispute. A struggle going back to 1913
00:26:50 My Grandfather had the Prince Coburg pub & claimed James Connelly & James Larkin the 2 great Irish/Scouse union leaders talking at his pub
00:27:20 Importance of unionising. Pre-union dockers had to stand in pens & be chosen for work. Stopping that was important: getting organised & paid. WOW did everything. I supported, had friends were involved. Docks are still non-union in Liverpool: a battle to be fought. A unionised work force keeps people safe, stops bad practices, such as explosion in Lebanon. Management’s main aim is profit. Unions necessary to protect wider communities.
00:28:50 Now involved in community branch of Unite the Union. Fighting sanctions, evictions. Training people how to support each other.
00:29:45 If you’re facing eviction & take someone with you to court, you are 50% less likely to lose your house. Organising Mckenzie’s Friend training like we did during the poll tax.

Name of interviewee Imogen Woolley
Name of interviewer Margaret Mariette
Date of interview 30/11/2020
Recording method Zoom & double-ended audio recording

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:40 What a tool library is
00:02:50 Tool library as a knowledge resource
00:04:00 Sharing. Building a community of people interested in building, fixing, etc
00:06:00 Growing empowerment, skills, safe practice and confidence of individuals.
00:08.00 Have to trust
00:09:00 Health and Safety.
00:10:30 Conversing with Edinburgh and Glasgow Tool Libraries
00:12:30 Data protection
00:13:50 Support network
00:13:50 Received wonderful support in getting set up from family/friends in Liverpool. Has great support network including existing Tool Libraries.
00:15:10 Covid has given me extra space to focus and foster resources.
00:16:20 Tool library ethos
00:16:20 Always interested in ethics, researched ethical consumerism and came to wonder if it’s possible due to climate change & access disparities.
00:17:00 When I first came across tool libraries in 2018 everything fell into place.
00:17:10 Worked in ethical cosmetics shop, still didn’t feel right.
00:17:25 Very into DIY/maintenance as therapy as well.
00:17:40 My dream is that these models of sharing will replace damaging systems.
00:19:20 Women in tool libraries
00:19:20 Women are underrepresented in setting up tool libraries but equally represented in borrowing. Workshop spaces are dominated by males. People being able to see a female in this kind of world (me) is important to make people feel able to use and access it.
00:20:30 I haven’t felt judged for my gender yet but am ready to take on a challenge
00:21:05 I’ve always been hands-on and practical.
00:21:20 I saw a British documentary on gendered toys for boys and girls and the limiting of manual skills over time that came from that. I’d love to upskill anyone who hasn’t had the opportunity, particularly girls and women.
00:23:30 A success was when doing voluntary work at Refugee Women Connect, running an art & crafts table. Inspired by seeing the therapy and joy of making. Seeing the happiness/excitement coming from refurbishing and learning new tools.
00:24:45 It’s a punch in the air, yesssss feeling. Fulfillment.

Name of interviewee Jo Schweier
Name of interviewer Lois Woolley
Date of interview 20/05/2021
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:15 Born in Hamburg 1992. Queer mother of 1 daughter. Writer. Artist.
00:02:45 Motherhood a massive step towards engaging with feminism. Responses to pregnancy were shocking. Baby products are extremely gendered.
00:04:55 I want to learn more about this, talk more about this and change it! Because it’s annoying.
00:05:40 Baby clothes for girls are impractical & inhibit freedom.
00:06:40 My child Emily was wild & brave from birth, I have to shop for these labels in the boys section of the charity shop.
00:07:35 Gendering is reinforced in language.
00:08:05 Harmful presumptions about gender & sexuality. “When you bring home a boyfriend your Daddy’s not gonna be happy about it.”
00:09:00 Patriarchy is shit. Teach your sons to be decent human beings, don’t tell my daughter to be careful. There needs to be more such education for boys.
00:10:00 We limit girls.
00:10:40 I love Hamburg: port town, feels open, individual, independent, artistic.
00:13:30 Feels imbued with community activism. Football team is political.
00:15:50 Liverpool & Hamburg are both on 53 degrees North & feel homely.
00:18:25 A lot of what I do is feminist as I’m a mother to a daughter & need to work in this context. I’m annoyed by the system & create from that.
00:19:10 Working with Independent Biennial. Documenting with my practice: “mostly writing & also chaos”. Impact of motherhood on being an artist. Parenting is time-consuming. Collective experience under-discussed.
00:22:40 Another artist-mother of twins described beginning to see all her work as art. Loading the dishwasher with creativity. Inspiring. Investigative.
00:25:45 The Undoneness of Motherhood. An idea we created together. Unending
00:27:45 Queer identity. Out for less than a year. Always knew but hid. People assume I’m straight & married. It’s so weird.
00:30:30 Importance of women’s spaces
00:30:30 Was part of a queer women’s group by Flood Theatre. I have never cried so much with people met online; nor felt so seen. A safe space to just be me.
00:31.40 Women need to be around other women free from patriarchal behaviour.
00:33:30 Healthy accountability happens in female-only spaces. We all share experiences. Being told to hold keys in our hands when walking at night.
00:35:30 Love the word “tools”. Feminist hammer. Confidence. I was raised to feel secondary to my Father’s opinions/emotions. I hid & isolated myself.
00:37:50 I do not want to pass that on at all. I’m working through it to be able to teach Emily better. She needs to be able to say no!
00:39:00 I am open about having a therapist, I don’t understand the taboo.
00:40:00 When my Dad visited, a patronising smile triggered a childlike response. I found I could overcome this & felt I did not care. Being a mother had already changed me from 26 year old habits, being a Mum is cool.
00:43:00 In that moment it was something I knew I had to do. I am not letting you have this power over me & my child.
00:43:15 I read a lot & try to listen to the experiences of other people, especially women. Chidera Eggerue helps me with confidence & to see the world from a different perspective. She calls white people out. I feel discomfort because I’m doing something that could hurt somebody else.
00:45:15 I follow feminist-activists on Instagram. Standing up for themselves.

Name of interviewee June Hudson
Name of interviewer Anna Reid
Date of interview 28/09/2020
Recording method Zoom & double-ended audio recording

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:02:25 Grew up in & out of care & separated family. Chased out of home at 15. Got a good job, had son, married & bought own home at 19.
00:03:40 Violent relationship began a few years later, lasted for 10 years, 2 more kids. Left as wanted young children to see strength.
00:04:20 Moved to London and returned to Liverpool. Many health issues.
00:04:45 Always interested in drama. Son filmed a BBC miniseries in Australia. Very artistic family.
00:05:30 Joined voluntary service, did lots of psychological/social education.
00:07:00 Son with brain injury was the inspiration. He’s an exhibiting artist.
00:08:20 Eldest son married his childhood sweetheart, had 3 children. Daughter is a model, lives in Spain. Has masters and runs magazine. Very proud Mum.
00:10:00 Volunteering work
00:10:00 I’m an assessor with a housing association, I work nationwide &train others. On board of family support service.
00:11:10 I’m highly qualified and down to earth which has allowed me to achieve a lot despite more health problems: strokes & blindness.
00:19:00 I chaperoned 50 kids on a boat from Sydney to Melbourne. I’m good with children, I volunteered 10 years with Homestart.
00:20:00 Went to a poetry session down by the docks, was invited to join Collective Encounters. I said yes. Performed in Leeds, Bristol, all over. Great fun. Despite bad stage fright.
00:21:40 I do Lifeswap: a group of us go round the country telling our stories. Putting myself out there with all sorts of people has given me confidence.
00:23:00 Won a special award for going the extra mile & improving the lives of people. I train involvement, empathy.
00:24:45 Helping others has made me go to work feeling good.
00:26:00 I’m being featured in a national magazine as a role model.
00:26:45 I love being at Sanctuary, supporting grandmothers who are raising their grandchildren due to the effects of drink/drugs.
00:31:40 When I make an assessment recommendation, they have 3 months to input it & then we go back and check. “You say we do.”
00:33:00 Experience of lockdown
00:33:00 My dog and Netflix documentaries got me through lockdown. I was doing too much before so in a way it has been a good rest despite being scary.
00:34:50 I miss everybody and the buzz of being in the world & doing it.
00:35:10 I assess all the hospitals in Liverpool with a group called Place. Interesting. Part of what I do is assist departments in improving their spaces for the elderly. Advocate.
00:42:00 I keep busy. My friend and I go on a trip to a different market every Saturday with our shopping trollies.
00:43:40 Work
00:43:40 I worked 50 hours a week at Tesco at 15 as well as a hypnotist’s assistant (Edward Heath). I had a fight with my sister & was asked to leave. Loved working at the Pools. Then earned good money at the ciggie factory. I learned how to look after myself so perhaps my Mum had done the best thing. We healed our relationship.
00:47:40 At 7 my brother and I were employed as spud pickers which I loved, during school holidays. Eating lunch on haybales and hearing stories. We gave her half the wages. I brought Christmas pressies with my earnings.

Name of interviewee Libby Mackay
Name of interviewer Anna Reid
Date of interview 10/12/20
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:05 Overview of groups and campaigns
00:01:05 Came to Liverpool 1975. Got involved with Vauxhaull neighbourhood council adult education.
00:02:10 Manpower services commission communities program.
00:03:00 Scotty Press: North Liverpool community newspaper. Used for campaigns as well as local reportage. Did headlines by hand with Letraset
00:04:50 Headline: “No to the NF!” then realising people might not know what this meant
00:05:50 Controversial womens health page “Have you got a bun in the oven?” offended some seriously.
00:06:40 Leafleted factories: Tate and Lyle, British American Tobacco
00:07:50 People suspicious of paper at first but then embraced it and contributed.
00:09:10 Local people mostly Catholic. Scotland Road heyday: pub on every corner.
00:11:20 Got involved in national abortion campaign. City centre then London 1970/80s. “I hope your prick’s as big as your mouth is!”
00:12:20 Mill Road maternity hospital campaign. People started refusing to accept certain conditions.
00:14:20 Arts projects
00:14:20 Vauxy Theatre. John Dylan. Social/political comment performances in pubs. Mutual support.
00:15:00 7:84 Theatre: 7% own 84% of wealth. John McGrath. Exciting to watch.
00:17:20 Commitment to the arts at the Rotunda meant bringing theatre companies out from the centre. Raised money to buy a presbytery, played church and council off against one another.
00:18:45 Developed North Liverpool Arts Committee to bring the big arts organisations into the area. Tate later collaborated. Biennial, Everyman, Philharmonic, Museum were represented.
00:20:10 Phil from the Phil started a community choir.
00:20:45 Children drew animals which were then made in neon. Viewers entranced. A sculpture is still there at the Rotunda “The Folly”. Doesn’t see this happening now.
00:22:20 One Biennial researched where attendees had come from and North Liverpool was well represented: a direct consequence of outreach
00:22:45 The Antiracism Committee worked with black artists and schools. And Irish culture. “All these places we filled are now empty”
00:24:00 A great deal of arts activism was done due mostly to my commitment “given the opportunity the arts can change people”
00:24:40 Adult education provision at Rotunda
00:24:40 We provided “free, flexible and accessible education”, even if it meant bending the rules.
00:25:00 3x per year we printed 10 000 leaflets and distributed round schools, Great Homer Street market. We had to remain available long term.
00:27:10 Feisty Kitty on reception would relate immediately to the terrified adult learners. She looked after a woman survivor of domestic abuse & had got her a lawyer within a day. People felt they were walking into a house rather than an institution. The smell of Diane’s scones welcomed.
00:28:40 We had to constantly fight for the free nursery.
00:30:30 National phenomenon: men weren’t prepared to admit they didn’t know. Worked to engage men.
00:31:00 It was exhilarating/scary. I dream of the Rotunda weekly. Banging placards against the window. Thatcherism reduced resistance.
00:34:30 We made a tiny dent in the city divide
00:35:40 We were openly competing with each other for crumbs of funding. Divisive.
00:37:00 Neon cat at the Biennial. Italian dancing in the folly. Exchange with Naples. Biennial really did put money into people on the outskirts. 1990’s
00:40:30 Racism and divisions in North Liverpool
00:40:30 Antiracism impact: mild. Need more work. North so white Irish Catholic.
00:42:30 Irish Catholic culture, music, stories, art would have had to be hidden upon moving to England due to historical distance.
00:44:00 Protestant/Catholic divide ebbing away. Gospel event at St Anthony’s. A huge theatre like space.
00:45:40 Adult education success story
00:45:40 After GCSE’s one woman with 3 kids got a first class English lit degree at Christ college (now Hope college) and went on to lecture: an incredible achievement. Priests astonished to see children on their premises.
00:47:10 Women’s health
00:47:10 Vauxhall Health Centre. Radical. Founded by two female doctors. Sitting round in waiting room an obvious engagement opportunity. Opening up discussion about contraception, reading mucus.
00:49:20 Started Women’s Health and Information Support Centre (WHISC), still alive and kicking on Bold Street. Health bus. Strong doctors such as Sheila Abdullah risked their profession to be involved. Through 80s and 90s
00:51:20 The health bus parked at schools/parents centres. Tried to be any place you’d find a group of women. Could go knocking on women's doors and ask how we can practically support such as transport to hospital. Didn’t realise how brilliantly invaluable a service until taken away.
00:53:00 Outreach to get women involved in Education
00:53:00 Dialogue with women: what did you want to be when you were a child? usually something that required training. North Liverpool absolutely full of unfulfilled ambitions. Some you could see developing/growing in front of you, the abilities they’d been sat on for years blossoming.
00:54:00 One student went from my dressmaking class to working for us in childcare. So satisfying to be involved in these journeys.
00:55:20 Adult education is incredibly precious. It’s immoral that it’s devalued at the moment. Adult education being malleable and responsive to requirements as they arise.

Name of interviewee Lois Woolley
Name of interviewer Jo Mary Watson
Date of interview 11/12/2020
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:35 Moved from Swansea to Bristol to Halifax in early life.
00:02:50 Feminism
00:02:50 Introduced to feminism through The Guardian.
00:03:15 At 16 went to the library to find The Female Eunuch which was in the archives as hadn’t been rented in decades.
00:04:40 Feel part of the conversation around feminism and integral to world view.
00:05:20 Whilst studying art did a piece Womb Room. Enjoyed getting people’s reactions. Felt good to ask questions in physical form, create new world.
00:07:50 Love idea of gathering and protecting women’s stories.
00:08:40 Have more questions than answers about inequality. “Urgent little plans”
00:10:00 Influence of parents
00:10:00 Parents were indirectly influential. Sexist/very gendered but always keen to debate. My feminism a rebellion.
00:12:00 Gender is a construct. Humanity is adaptable/flexible. This is obvious to me. The drip drip drip of culture shapes our minds/brains. The freedom from gender oppression would be utopian. It’s possible.
00:14:20 Been privileged to see what’s possible in female-only spaces. Patriarchy operates by hoarding power.
00:15:20 Subtle, toxic gender messages from commercialism & mainstream media are a worry. Narrowing human possibilities.
00:17:00 Art and safe spaces can give glimpses of what’s possible. Honest stories.
00:18:00 Sexualised advertising: objectification obscuring women’s work.
00:19:00 Started studying Art & Philosophy after nannying. Art Therapy goal.
00:21:00 Radical feminism great philosophical, critical lens.
00:22:30 Can feel lonely to be feminist
00:23:30 Valuable, crucial to do work exploring passions
00:25:00 Resilience through compassion. Fuel from self-investment.
00:28:45 Moving around/travelling
00:28:45 Moving around/travelling country gave opportunity for comparison. Cultures so different in Wales, Yorkshire, Bristol: different normals show range of possibilities.
00:30:30 Interacted with science/art as a child alone in my Mum’s museums. Free from gender pressure.
00:31:30 Father always up for a debate.
00:32:10 Creative work
00:32:10 Proud of video work about sex abuse non-apology. Got strong reactions.
00:34:50 No better feeing than making work that moves people. Buzz. Exciting.
00:36:30 COVID-19 impact
00:36:30 Concerned about what Covid means for feminism.
00:38:20 Feminism as a humanism. Believe in our species. Honesty as foundation
00:40:00 Homogenisation of human experience a tragedy. Challenge to be authentic.
00:41:30 Practice digging into truth & authentic expression. Comes from the gut.

Name of interviewee Lynda Cash
Name of interviewer Anya
Date of interview 9/19/2020
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:20 Born prematurely in Bolton. Got 4 CSEs and then studied engineering
00:02:05 Experience in Royal Navy
00:02:05 Always wanted to join Navy. Thought eyesight would prevent. But trained as combat medic Nov 1971. Did 3 years nursing on wards & got rank up. Moved into operating theatres.
00:03:30 1976/7 sent to Gibraltar naval hospital. Lovely time. Tried to find pub staying open latest. Beach party. Uckers. Lots of experience in theatre.
00:05:30 1981 Joined HMS Invincible. First trip Portugal, Spain, Norway, Denmark. Did anti-submarine warfare off Scottish coast. Got Blue Nose certificate.
00:06:10 Went to Norfolk Virginia. Served fresh Californian lobster on US warship. USS Kennedy, dumbstruck by size of US Navy. Explored Washington.
00:08:00 Sailed back to UK through Bay of Biscay.
00:08:15 1982 still aboard ship. Falklands war kicked off. Operation Corporate. We assembled. Was worried about gas supply levels but got very well stocked.
00:10:10 Main engine was discovered to be faulty en route. Nobody knew where the Falklands were. Time kept changing which threw ship into chaos.
00:12:10 First received some Argentinian casualties from a captured spy ship.
00:12:50 2 Harrier pilots were our first casualties. Another Harrier’s engine blew up as he came in to land.
00:14:30 HMS Glamorgan was hit 12th June, I’ve had treatment for my PTSD, after caring for the worst casualty who died in my arms. His best friend was burnt head to foot & lost an arm.
00:15:40 Ceasefire declared 14th June, the next day we had a flight deck accident. A chap pinned under a tractor. I was only qualified person on board.
00:18:00 Working as surgeons first assistant. Holding back spleen/liver. Working blind as lights were out. People queuing up outside sick bay to give blood.
00:20:30 Hit bad weather. “Can you keep this f-ing ship still!”.
00:21:30 We lost him at 19:20. His diary was published; he predicted his own death.
00:22:30 Walked round ship in a daze. Wrote in diary “something’s not right here”.
00:23:20 Enjoyed drinking spirits with surgeon & anaesthetist, spirits forbidden for my rank. The theatre had been cleaned by the rest of the team.
00:24:00 My captain asked to watch an operation. Later the MOD gave me a special ticket to his memorial.
00:25:00 Life after the Navy & PTSD
00:25:00 Came off ship in 1983, did medical admin. Passed several qualifications.
00:25:30 Wasn’t sleeping well. Drinking heavily. Back into theatres 1985 & wasn’t the same. I was meticulous & others careless. I cracked & ended up seeking psychiatric help. I was administratively discharged from Navy.
00:26:50 Did agency work, bought house 1988. North Manchester. Senior role.
00:27:10 Cracked up again 1999 after a similar case in theatre. Diagnosed chronic PTSD due to war trauma. A mental & physical illness. NHS signed me off.
00:28:20 Fighting discharge
00:28:20 I became a fighter. I wrote & questioned my method of discharge. I did not give up. The consultant confirmed I was ill due to combat stress.
00:30:10 Circa 2005 I got my discharge changed & could claim my pension. I then fought for the interest & compound interest & tax & war pension.
00:32:30 Latest battle still in progress: Sea Cadets. I made complaints & they spread rumours. I’m going to win that one.
00:33:40 No support in Navy. PTSD not recognised despite knowledge since first world war. Need to be aware of regulations & entitlements or they get away with it. I won because I persevered.
00:35:10 Service personnel are now treated a lot lot better than they were.
00:36:20 Splicing the main brace: extra rum for doing important work.
00:37:40 Brian Marsden’s diary became a radio production. I met his Mother
00:39:10 Experience of lockdown
00:39:10 I miss veteran to veteran contact in lockdown as I learn so much about how to manage my illness. My biggest problem is lots of nightmares.
00:40:40 I survived to tell my story. I comfort others.
00:41:00 I tried to take my own life but was interrupted & received the support I needed.
00:42:00 I love my hens, car & dog. You have to stay positive and know where to get help. Do not be fobbed off.

Name of interviewee Maddy Vaz
Name of interviewer Tessa Buddle
Date of interview 11/12/2020
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:07 Family background & reasons for setting up Sanctuary Family Support
00:01:07 Single parent, son involved in heroin use, resilience to deal with that, got involved in volunteering to support others who have been through same thing
00:03:14 Institutionalised racism in organisations
00:04:11 Decided there was a need to set up Sanctuary in the south side of Liverpool
00:04:30 Resilience and dealing with lots of challenges at once
00:06:00 Campaigning for Grandparents’ rights: Providing support for kinship carers, involvement with Grandparents Plus.
Grandparents are saving social services £44,000 a year. I had to go into my pension to support my Grandchild. Should be getting paid.
Story about protesting in London and conversations with politicians.
00:10:15 Setting up Sanctuary was the best thing I could have done. It helped me survive.
00:11:25 Started off doing all the work myself. It was worth it when you look at where we are now.
00:11:45 Lockdown: supporting people who were suicidal over the phone. But people need face to face support. Fundraised for the screens and equipment so that staff could come back in August.
00:13:20 Mental health impacts of lockdown
00:14:10 When you’ve been through it yourself you can empathise with people and what they’re going through
00:15:15 Amazing to see the children in the families we’ve supported to grow up and go to University. It’s about giving people that support.
00:16:17 Health inequalities
00:16:17 Toxteth area – people tend to keep to themselves. Lack of trust with GP surgeries, hospitals, anybody who is in authority.
00:17:15 Black people affected by COVID
00:18:00 I love old people and helping people.
00:18:52 Services provided by Sanctuary
00:22:20 Story about a young mum coming to the service & the difference their work makes. Did a presentation for the CCGs. A doctor came up and told me ‘You know you’re doing the work of CAMHS?’
00:24:20 Sexual health classes – some of the older women surprised, didn’t know women could have condoms
00:24:53 I’m all for social justice. Don’t like seeing people being treated unfairly. Always speak up for people.
00:25:50 We’re saving GPs, CCGs, a lot of people, a lot of money
00:28:58 Success story: Supporting a service user who was turned away from another organisation. ‘I think it’s been a misunderstanding’. If I hadn’t intervened, that wouldn’t have happened.
00:31:10 More detail about Grandparent’s Plus
00:31:53 Filmed by the One Show. Later got a phone call from the Community Foundation – a funder wants to work with you. Started getting phone calls from all over the country from people asking advice.
00:34:12 Trips to London with Grandparent’s Plus – going on the Eye, having a buffet in parliament, wearing the T-Shirts
00:37:10 Financial situation for Grandparents being carers. If the child would have gone into care, the grandparent should be entitled to payment. But it doesn’t work like that. Postcode lottery. I did get a payment, but it wasn’t a lot. Beggars can’t be choosers. Couldn’t afford a holiday. We were in poverty. Why can’t we get an extra £20 a week?
00:41:45 What happened to the money? I ask questions. Why can’t people go into rehab out of the city? Otherwise it’s a revolving door. A waste of money.
00:43:55 I just wish there wasn’t a need for my service. That would mean there wasn’t a problem out there.
00:45:30 Deaths of people we’ve been supporting
00:47:05 Social benefits for the Grandparents. Coming here has helped them to survive. Takes them out of isolation. We do have a laugh. Doughnut Jean, Sausage Roll Sue. ‘I don’t know about healthy eating – look at this!’
00:48:15 Losing a child while on a trip in London, found her sitting with a policeman. One woman got stuck on the tube! But we found her.
00:49:40 Sending letters to councillors. Politicians who supported the campaign. Luciana Berger, Frank Field. But what could they do? It’s social justice isn’t it?
00:51:36 More detail about racism in other drug agencies
The name of the organisation has been redacted
00:51:45 Someone shared a story about going to visit someone in Toxteth and being asked ‘would you feel safe going there?’
00:53:15 Project 8. Black-led organisation. Trust. Later closed down. I was concerned about this community and where people were going to go.
01:00:20 Fantastic feedback from a GP and a social worker. ‘The best person I’ve ever spoken to in any drug agency’.
01:02:23 Dissertation was on whether methadone is a safe way to treat people. Replaces one addiction with another. But for some people, short term can work.
01:05:00 Lack of education around addiction
01:06:45 Racism: suffer more living in an area as a minority. Liverpool is a diverse city but there is a lot of racism. I’m one of these people who loves everybody.

Name of interviewee Margaret Marriette
Name of interviewer Keith Barber
Date of interview 04/11/2020
Recording method Telephone speaker & audio recorder

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:00 Growing up during the war
00:02:23 Schooling. Secondary modern. Left at 15.
00:02:45 First job as a pools clerk, and going into nursing.
00:02:50 Mother and baby home. Very saddened by the situation. People didn’t look outwards.
00:05:22 Labour Party from 1976 onwards.
00:09:52 Talking to Len McClusky at the conference. Asking about democracy – why are we being dictated to by the union?
00:15:20 First time getting involved in politics. Met Stafford Cripps at a party – forming Youth Labour Party. Decided to go to the next meeting.
00:17:35 Got married and for the next couple of years let it go. Became widowed and had to live in rooms. Wouldn’t accept Black, Irish or single mothers.
00:19:08 Living in poor conditions. Fire hazards. People came knocking on the door to ask what are your circumstances? Because I’d already lived with my mother in law I could get a house.
00:20:57 Posting leaflets for the Labour Party with a baby in the pram.
00:22:20 Supporting byelections. Knocking on doors. Women not considered important. ‘Oh she’s not interested, she won’t be going anywhere.’
00:24:00 I didn’t see many women going in to vote. They were very much under the thumb. The husband said ‘you do this, you do that’. It was a dark period in politics.
00:24:50 I still go to meetings today where the men sit in the front and hold forth. I stand up and say ‘will somebody please listen to me?’
00:26:18 Lockdown: Meetings online during lockdown. Difficult being able to do anything.
00:27:10 Derek Hatton. Conditions of housing in Liverpool. Difficult to get out. Margaret Thatcher sold off council houses. Derek promised to help.
00:31:00 Margaret Thatcher got a lot of support. A lot of women voted for her. Two or three years down the line, they were sorry. Liverpool City Council couldn’t get any money.
00:33:27 I was in the party when we were all thrown out! We were trying to support Derek. They closed us down, ‘out you go’. You could not attend the meetings.
00:34:43 If there was a house going, the labour party member got it. That was all stopped. It had to be above board.
00:35:20 I bought my house.
Allowed back in the party because ‘we hadn’t broke any law’
00:37:45 I was supposed to go to parliament to protest but I couldn’t always get a babysitter.
00:41:44 Miners Strike. People were starving. I was collecting money, trying to help. A woman came up to me and spat in my face. The men were disgusted.
00:43:39 A lot of things were being nationalised, but Margaret came along and un-nationalised them. Beecham, closing stations. It’s still going on today.
00:45:20 Winter of discontent, 3 days week, caused breakdown in the Labour Party.
00:46:05 Bus strikes. Couldn’t get a bus into town to talk to solicitor. Terrible time. I think that’s why we lost the election.
00:47:00 Involvement in the Labour Party now. Listen to the meetings online.
00:47:56 I can’t see us ever getting in again.

Name of interviewee Olivia Graham
Name of interviewer June Hudson
Date of interview 30/11/2020
Recording method Zoom & double-ended audio recording

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:50 Wanted to do sports like the boys as a child and gradually got excluded. Became more frustrated with the unfairness as she grew older and noticed more. Mum is outspoken. Sister works in mental health and is vocal about the mistreatment of women there. Cousin Jack always agreed that she was treated differently as a girl.
00:04:10 Grrrl Power project
00:04:10 2016-2018 Grrrl Power project. Had studied youth and community work at uni and worked in the Pankhurst Women’s Centre for a few years (where the first women’s right to vote meeting was held). Began to get more active with women’s issues. Moved to Germany.
00:05:00 Upon return was unsure & unfulfilled in career. Decided with a friend to start a project in Liverpool about women in creative spaces & how they’re perceived and expected to perform.
00:05:35 Inspired by riot grrrl movement: reclaiming girl as grrrl. Has always liked being a girl but not being treated as one as compared to boys. Colleague Michelle came on board.
00:06:15 Launched exhibition on a Friday night in Constellations in 2016: Women Where Do You Find Yourself in The Arts? An open call for women and non-binary people. A conversation about what it means to be a woman artist.
00:06:30 Ran series of workshops on the Sunday. Then did an essay series about women in love. Ran workshops with FACT gallery. Did 2 day pop up workshop in London with Lush. Ran a series of panels.
00:07:10 Main thing was reclaiming creative spaces to make them accessible, inviting and encouraging for women.
00:07:30 Taught English as a foreign language in Germany.
00:07:55 Polyester ‘Zine.
00:07:55 Founded by Ione Gamble a journalist who couldn’t find a place for her voice. A platform for women, queer, non-binary, body positivity, disabled, alternative voices.
00:09:15 Podcasting
00:09:15 Mid 2019 began editing audio for the podcast and was then invited to co-host.
00:09:50 During lockdown started the fortnightly Sleepover Club exploring/reclaiming words usually used against women.
00:10:40 Then joined Acast and began making weekly Obsessions podcast
00:11:25 The Skin You’re In interviewing 6 different activists
00:12:05 Greatest achievement: the female friendships/allies. Building a world around women/ non-binary of positive spaces. A vibrant network where I feel really seen, understood and creatively fulfilled.
00:13:30 “We started Grrrl Power for other people and then ended up getting so much out of it for ourselves.”
00:14:20 Future in activism: I can take space as a woman due to my activism and share it. Providing platforms for marginalised people. Sharing stories and experiences.
00:16:15 Barriers: Others not understanding the focus on women, doubting existence of sexism. Internal barriers arising from sexist environment. We’re told so much that we’re not worthy.
00:19:00 Nervous to mention I work in audio production at first as men would often drop equipment names as a power thing. Have grown more confident.
00:24:00 Thoughts on International Women’s Day and Black History Month: we should be respectful of women every day and every month should be black history month but it can be good to have those reminders
00:24:20 Feelings about achievements
00:24:20 Grrrl Power enabled me to achieve the most. Gave me a path forward, allowed me to acknowledge my worth as a queer person and woman, see importance of community over individual activism.
00:26:20 My activism stems from my connections with women.
00:28:20 There are a lot of parts of the wider world/workplace telling women they’re not valuable/trustworthy.
00:29:20 I was so much braver that my male mate growing up, still am
00:30:30 I had an energy to try and change things. Political community work. Had been involved with climate/antiwar. Working at the Pankhurst centre taught me how to channel that.
00:31:00 Fighting imposter syndrome, and its sources
00:33:00 Being made to feel physically unsafe in places changes how we see ourselves internally. Real damage to the self, stress and worry. I now challenge myself to enjoy the activism and my life.
00:35:20 Making change for others
00:35:20 One of the Grrrl Power workshops was for women of colour only, important. Different women experience different barriers.
00:36:00 Not just an individual aim despite my individual fulfilment. If something’s a problem for me there’s a good chance it’s a problem for others and a really good chance we can challenge it together.
00:37:20 Collective achievement, not hierarchical. I don’t believe in the girlboss thing. We can all be in it together. For me it’s more about raising everybody’s way of life and enjoyment.

Name of interviewee Tracey Dunn
Name of interviewer Anna Reid
Date of interview 19/11/2020
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
00:01:30 Came to Liverpool 30 years ago after art school.
00:02:00 Aware of Miners strike in 1984 under Thatcher
00:03:15 Festival Gardens campaign
00:03:15 Got involved in saving the Festival Gardens campaign in 2007.
00:04:15 Had attended Stop the War & CND marches in London
00:04:30 Grew food all her life. As did her Mum & Nan. Environment runs through generations.
00:05:11 We were victorious in a way: had a public enquiry. Not complete as council now want to build even more flats.
00:06:10 Had a futures day at Lark Lane Old Police Station: nobody wants building.
00:07:10 Garden Festival only there for 5 months. Heseltine set up Merseyside Task force after Toxteth Riots. A power grab as local councillors lost control.
00:08:55 Between 1972 & 82, 80 000 jobs had been lost in Liverpool.
00:10:10 Permaculture movement
00:10:10 Community permaculture allotment on Mersey Rd: Mersey Forest Garden. Try & meet there once a week. Had been working alone there.
00:11:40 Once found a grapevine hidden by the shed with 80 bunches of grapes that we didn’t know was there.
00:12:35 Big permaculture movement in Liverpool, we found eachother. All activists into sustainable living/ protecting the environment.
00:14:10 Allotments are really important.
00:14:20 We used to have bonfires after we worked with soup & hot drinks.
00:16:30 Save Sefton Park Meadows campaign
00:16:30 On film making course with Workers Education Association, made 5min film for Save Sefton Park Meadows campaign & organised protest.
00:17:50 Had 15 mins to talk to Joe Anderson. He called meadow a rubbish tip & I pointed out that’s a failure of the council. Asked to see the map.
00:19:00 Interviewed the relentless Ken Aspinall. We won! -Unusual.
Traceys film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9qeU6ucU8

00:20:35 Filmmaking and photography
00:20:35 69 other films kept in North West Archive in Manchester. They were only on phone before that. Was on Recycled Cinema film panel.
00:21:50 Some films about work with Extinction Rebellion & Youth Climate Strike. One film to save Flat Iron Greenspace, amazing event. The Echo, tightrope walkers, banner making, eco clotheswap, music.
00:23:20 Started taking photos & films of Youth Climate Strike
00:24:10 Protesting property development on public space
00:24:10 The Flat Iron was a pub on Park Lane, now a designated public open space. 8 storey apartments are proposed, killing 80 mature trees. Trees are essential for our health & that of the wildlife. We must protect green space. Property developer has been arrested. I went to the consultation.
00:26:50 I protested in the rain with the Green Party, made a vinyl banner.
00:27:00 Don’t get many victories but campaign as have no choice but to do what you can to protect environment. It’s essential for our wellbeing.
00:28:40 Any type of action is useful, important. I sign petitions, march, social media. The more the better.
00:29:45 Worked for Nerve Magazine as a journalist for 10 years. Did their social media also.
00:30:35 Friends of Princes Park
00:30:35 Involved for 15 years with Friends of Princes Park. Planted many trees. Four rivers run underneath. Put on events such as intergenerational day. Lots of litter picking, organising. The team works very hard.
00:32:45 Planted a cherry blossom avenue 2 days after the Fukushima disaster, dedicated to the victims. Fundraised for picnic benches.
00:33:50 Everything we do goes through council, think they’re grateful. No money. Lockdown had made the parks even more essential & enjoyed. Liverpool has a litter problem, we need more campaigning for that.
00:36:10 Occupy London
00:36:10 Occupy London, Autumn 2011. Demanding justice. Saw New York movement, wrote & handed our slips of paper in Next to Nowhere social Centre telling people to check it out as nothing was happening here. Wellington Monument was being occupied, I went straight there! Did interviews. Unite the Union supported with hot drinks & waterproofs.
00:39:00 Climate change is linked with Capitalism, it’s destroying the environment & Only benefitting the 1%. We need to end our dependency on fossil fuels.
00:40:10 I have no choice other than to have hope. Governments have done nothing. Need to reduce our consumption, things like electric hire cars. Keep raising awareness, doing all that you can.
00:42:00 Public transport
00:42:00 We need free public transport. Council needs to step up quick.
00:43:03 Cycling. I’m part bike part human. Need more cycle lanes.
00:44:45 I’m not going to be hopeless. I have to have faith despite not enough being done.
00:45:05 Free public transport would save on hospital admissions (asthma & accidents), road wear & tear. I campaign for it.
00:46:00 Better trains and cheaper. Not HS2 – that’s just pointless.

Name of interviewee Zi Lan Liao
Name of interviewer Lois Woolley
Date of interview 10/06/2021
Recording method Squadcast

Time stamp Topic/Story
Background
00:00:55 Born in Guangzhou, China in 1969
00:01:20 Other name was Michelle upon move to England aged 12. Uses maiden name for working in Chinese community.
00:03:40 Was freelance musician/artist, a lot of travel. Mother had said a mother cannot travel with a baby. After 2nd child sought work requiring less travel.
00:05:00 Working with Pagoda Youth Orchestra.
00:05:00 2009 budget cuts began. Orchestra went independent (Pagoda Arts) from community centre & youth service.
00:06:00 2011 budget cuts go further. In many cities youth services disappeared but Liverpool fought to keep it going. 300 staff reduced to 100 staff. All community centre staff, including cleaners, made redundant. Youth orchestra had been there since 1982/3, worried orchestra would end if home was lost. Possible beginning of community work: approached council & asked if Pagoda Arts could stay in centre if volunteers ran it.
00:07:20 We offer community services: translation, benefit advice, advocacy etc all by volunteers: no funding.
00:08:20 Anti-racist activism
00:08:20 Activism started during pandemic. Chinese people were targeted from Jan 2020. By Feb children in orchestra, some young as 6, had been spat at, some not even knowing of Corona. Realised problem towards community.
00:10:00 Contacted by stranger on We Chat who was a single Mum being targeted at home by 10-20 people. We contacted police & translator.
00:11:40 When we reopened centre in July we realised how many in community had suffered. We cannot close again.
00:13:00 In Sept we were contacted by 2 students who had been physically attacked & verbally abused in March just before lockdown. Racial epithets used.
00:15:10 Hate Crime campaigning
00:15:10 Another student contacted us for similar crime but had reacted in self-defence. He was charged. Shocked to receive court summons in July, didn’t know who to turn to in lockdown so only contacted us in September.
00:17:25 We contacted Hate Crime Commissioner: couldn’t help as it was already in court & hadn’t been recorded as hate crime. The prosecution paper showed he’d told police the hate crime details as well as having a witness.
00:19:30 I told police many people who suffer hate crime have language barrier! ‘Hate Crime’ is not common language, the police officers must spot it. I felt the student had been treated unfairly, I felt very sorry for him. I spoke to the hate crime officer immediately who still couldn’t intervene.
00:22:20 I wasn’t sure what to do, had never dealt with a court case. We couldn’t publicise. I sought support from Anthony Walker Foundation & Writing on the Wall amongst others. Was advised we had to wait for court which could have had several dire consequences. I felt something has to be done.
00:23:50 Because of the hate crime rise against the Chinese community in the UK, lottery funding has been allocated. “I’ll sign up to this program if you can help me with this case”. “I want to help this boy but I don’t know how.”
00:25:00 A person in London who has been doing this kind of campaign a long time spotted this was secondary victimisation.
00:26:00 The student didn’t want publicity, to protect his mother also.
00:26:40 I was very moved by the people who wanted to support. We only had 2 weeks to do everything. 5 people: me, Jabez Lam & Vicky from Hackney Chinese Community, Jill from Mill Home Chinese community (?) who knew a retired solicitor who wanted to help. I was appreciative/grateful.
00:28:00 We only had a week to get signatures as well as translate. They didn’t even know this boy, nor me, & would be up until 3 am helping. We got 75 organisations to sign in support & 11 extra letters. Sent to CPS at 6pm Fri & Jennifer responded immediately!
00:30:45 We discussed amending CPS procedures. Did training sessions with CPS in London & police. This kind of failure shouldn’t happen. Hate crime should be spotted by police officer straight away; commissioner should also; CPS too. These procedures should ensure hate crime isn’t missed otherwise it’s an institutional problem. ‘Well it happened because this is the case.’
00:32:40 Investigation: There’s protection of hate crime victims with CPS but not victims who try to protect themselves. Suggested CPS should add this into guidelines. So this case helps this community but all communities/citizens.
00:34:30 Boy still had to go to court, fortunately found not guilty! Attacker was found guilty but not for hate crime. Officers apologised.
00:37:10 Police admitted mistake. In London fortnightly hate crime meeting with Met & Chinese community; Liverpool superintendent apologised to community. 3 apologies! Plus improvement & making it a case study.
00:38:30 From total inexperience to knowing what to do: learned a lot in 2 weeks!
00:39:20 Pagoda Arts is now a hate crime report centre: all staff are trained & orchestra helpers are trained to help children.
00:40:00 The children made a piece: Isolate which is on Youtube (https://youtu.be/lsNzS8L6o0o) about how the Chinese community came through the pandemic. The artefacts of the single Mum targeted were included with permission.
00:41:30 People are unaware. I’m angry the political game harms communities.
00:43:50 My son was coming out of a restaurant in York at 16 celebrating a professional football achievement. A drunk called him ch*y. He wanted to fight & I had to tell him it’s not worth it. This racism connects with Brexit.
00:45:15 Advice for those wanting to get active in their community
00:45:20 I regret doing it! I was training in community leadership & got inspired hearing Kim Johnson & Anna Rothery speak. “I need to fight for this boy”
00:48:00 Kim was so supportive & is also helping the Chinese community with the 400+ Chinese sailors deported in the 1940’s after they had finished helping fight the war. They were married locally with children & put on ships overnight without getting to say goodbye. The families (often Welsh/Irish wives) didn’t know the truth. Campaigning for acknowledgement since 2000. I’m now assisting. Kim questioned Boris Johnson about it.
00:51:50 Drive behind activism
00:51:50 Kim Johnson is one of the people who inspired me to become active but I did not want that! It’s not easy. I didn’t ask for it/want to be an activist!
00:53:00 A lot of my drive is my children; they are mixed heritage. I remember how it felt arriving in England with no English in the 80’s. I’ve been called names.
00:54:55 I work doing Chinese culture so rarely see the discriminatory side. It’s difficult for my boys to identify who they are being mixed heritage in school. Western people see us as Chinese & China sees us as westernised.
00:57:05 Be proud of who you are. What you have is strong. You are unique. Confidence is important. This is more of an issue post-Brexit.
00:59:50 If you can say no, it’s more brave than fighting. Though sometimes violently defending self/others is essential.
01:01:00 It could happen to me. I empathise with anger at injustice.
01:02:30 Community support during pandemic
01:02:30 We want to help anybody. Much of the community, especially elderly, can’t understand the numerous coronavirus updates. I started translating the news/info. Mass testing in particular.
01:04:30 We opened as a test centre, the army came. Fantastic. Helped community immensely. We vaccinated 400 people mostly Chinese but locals too.
01:06:50 Many don’t know street names, some words are unpronounceable for Chinese community. Patience & saving in phone helps with getting lost.
01:09:30 Music
01:09:30 I’m a trained musician, learned to play Chinese harp in China when I was 3. Learned to play Western harp, dreamed of crossing the cultures together**.